PODCAST EP. 388: Wild Game Cooking Secrets: Hank Shaw on Upland Birds and Mushrooms

Speaker 1 (00:50.484)

Welcome to On the Wing Podcast presented by Purina Pro Plan. Joining me at Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's headquarters today is award winning food writer, hunter, angler, forager, speaker, all around good guy. Actually, the keynote speaker for National Pheasant Fest and Quail Classic 2022. Omaha.

Speaker 2 (01:17.866)

I think it was twenty twenty two, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20.046)

Right. Which is where we're returning to this year. Nebraska. my was that your Peyton Manning? Yeah. This isn't Peyton Manning. This is the one and only Hank Shaw. Welcome back, Hank. How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:23.276)

Omaha! Omaha!

Speaker 2 (01:34.594)

Yeah. I'm good. thanks for having me back on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:37.256)

Absolutely. What have you been up to? You you've been you got hunting season under your belt a little?

Speaker 2 (01:43.634)

Yeah, hunting season's already started. I think I started it off this year in southwestern Oklahoma, which as you may or may not guess is hot and dry. And a couple of days dove hunting and teal hunting, where it was a hundred and nine in the afternoon and crazy dry. Yeah. But I had a really good day. I'm actually I'm smelling myself just a little bit. I shot a limit of doves. Which is fifteen on twenty five shells. That's pretty solid. Fox of shells for a limited doves is in my at least for me, it's pretty good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:20.534)

for folks that you know, you've been I think you've been on this podcast three, four times, something like that. For folks that maybe don't know your backstory, give the the the Hank Shaw biography. Where where you're from, what brings us what brings you here today?

Speaker 2 (02:37.09)

Well, I live I live in Saint Paul, Minnesota, but I've lived in seven or eight states. I lose track sometimes. and I write cookbooks for a living and I run two websites. One is Hunter Angler Gardener Cook. and that is a I believe it's still the internet's largest source of wild food recipes. and then I do have an essay site where I kind of write about the interaction of nature and and life really. and and that one's called To the Bone and that's a sub stack and so

That's kind of what occupies most of my time. I I believe let's see, I I'm trying to think if there's an upland bird. Yes, there's one upland bird I have not yet shot cooked and eaten, and that would be the Himalayan snowcock.

Speaker 1 (03:18.478)

And we partnered. Well, what year did you publish Pheasant Quail Cottontail? Twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2 (03:25.998)

Not a minute. But yeah, we partner with that and to this day, yeah, I I think I don't know how much money has gone back to Pheasants forever from that.

Speaker 1 (03:35.278)

Yeah, neighborhood of fifteen thousand bucks. Yeah. So for folks that don't know, pheasant, quail, cottontail was your fourth.

Speaker 2 (03:44.095)

I believe so, yeah. Fourth book. Hunt gather cook, duck duck goose, buck buck moose, pheasant quail cottontail. Fourth book.

Speaker 1 (03:49.582)

And then hook line and sinker. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (03:52.258)

Yep, great. Hook Land It's Supper and then Borderlands came after that. And then right now, this fall, for ten year anniversary, I completely I retired the old Buck Buck Moose and I completely rebooted it. It's much bigger, it's much better. I've added a whole bunch of recipes, a whole bunch of pages, a whole bunch of new photos, and it's like I was thinking about it and think about something that you're good at and now think about how much better you are now than you were ten years ago. And so that was really what made my decision.

Speaker 1 (04:25.07)

Most things for me go reverse. I was a great shortstop back in the day and now

Speaker 2 (04:33.302)

Esix. What is the old saying? I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm good once as I ever was.

Speaker 1 (04:39.858)

Are you really quoting Toby Keith? Well, I do want to thank you. You know, we mentioned Pheasant Quail Cottontail. And for folks that don't know, we we started touching on this. you know, we we have our logos on the back of that book. And out of every single copy ever sold, you continue to make a contribution back to the organization. Yep.

Speaker 2 (04:41.869)

Might be.

Speaker 1 (05:07.222)

Our habitat mission, that's what's generated that fifteen thousand plus. Yeah. Back to our habitat mission. So first of all, thank you. Yeah, you're very welcome. And and thank you again for bringing a copy of Buck Buck Moose. Sure. I have the previous version, the original. As you should. The OG. And now thanks to you, I have the update of it's gorgeous. And you you're unique in that you

Speaker 2 (05:31.106)

It is. It's I'm really proud of it.

Speaker 1 (05:36.086)

I I think correct me if I'm wrong, outside of the first one, Hunt Gather Co, you've self published.

Speaker 2 (05:41.708)

all but the last the first two. So the first one is Rodale. and they do the they I don't even know if they still exist as a publisher anymore, but they did like Runners World and like Prevention Magazine and stuff like they were that kind of a publisher. And then the second one was Random House. Okay. The Duckbook is actually Random House. And but everything since then it's been just me. Wow. And it's it's really been freeing. super stressy. I'm a lot more gray than I probably should be because you know

Speaker 1 (06:01.518)

Wow.

Speaker 1 (06:10.082)

Some ways, but I it but I remember last winter you sent me an email. I was like it's like eleven o'clock on a Thursday. So you wanna go cross country skiing? I'm like, Hank, Hank, I'm at work. I can't just go like at eleven o'clock on a Thursday morning 'cause we have beautiful fresh snow and it's thirty two degrees out whatever it was.

Speaker 2 (06:31.854)

Of course you can. I you just don't want

Speaker 1 (06:34.35)

You have more freedom than the rest of us.

Speaker 2 (06:36.802)

Well, okay, but I also don't have a weekend. Like this the other day, I mean this spring, I was like, Why is nobody answering the phone? And then I'm walking around my house and like, it's Easter. It's Easter.

Speaker 1 (06:46.454)

You're such a

Speaker 2 (06:51.214)

that's why. Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:53.516)

Yeah, so there there's a balance there, right? There's tremendous amount of freedom, but it's also a whole lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah, imagine and but even just like health insurance. Yeah. man.

Speaker 2 (06:59.988)

Yeah. In weird hours.

Speaker 2 (07:06.574)

Yeah. Seven hundred and seventy dollars a month. Yeah. Just for me. Like I can't even imagine if I had any like I'm knocking on wood right now, I'm reasonably healthy, so I can't imagine if I had some sort of a condition. Yeah, so it's high risk, high reward, I guess.

Speaker 1 (07:23.544)

So for our listeners, obviously if you're listening, you're probably a pheasant hunter, quail hunter, grouse hunter, pheasant, quail, cottontail. I I remember this very distinctly. Your goal with all these books, you you call them category killer. You try you try to create a book, a cookbook. And it they're more than cookbooks, right? I mean you have tons of recipes, but there's also stories and processing and

Speaker 2 (07:41.356)

Great memory.

Speaker 1 (07:53.878)

you know, conservation element. But you try to establish a a cookbook in a category that no one when a another person picks it up is like there ain't no way I'm gonna beat

Speaker 2 (08:07.596)

Yeah. Right. That's the goal.

Speaker 1 (08:09.72)

So you you've done that with buck buck moose, you know, duck duck goose. D how many people ask you, why didn't you call it duck duck gray duck?

Speaker 2 (08:21.834)

Only people from Minnesota. So the the woman I'm seeing right now, she is born and raised in Minnesota and she is adamant that Gray duck is just factually superior to to goose. And she g she actually kinda has an argument because when you're playing around the circle, right? It's duck duck goo as soon as you know it's goose, right? But you can do duck duck

Speaker 1 (08:32.75)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:45.55)

Green duck or duck.

Speaker 2 (08:47.054)

Not goose. Like it says she was it's she's she's also very, very funny when she does it, but she's like, no, gray duck is really proper and important. It's like, okay, so do you also call it when you're doing circles in an icy parking lot in the middle of the snow? What do you call that?

Speaker 1 (09:04.846)

well donuts, whippin' pissies, whippin' shitty.

Speaker 2 (09:09.26)

Yes, so donuts is what the entire universe calls it, except for people here who call it whip and shitties or or pinphysio.

Speaker 1 (09:15.192)

Whipping pissies. I'm a Michigander, so I grew up with duck duck goose. Yeah. I came to Minnesota and it's like duck duck gray duck. Like, what the hell are you it it's you know, another word, wallet. You know, I grew up with the word wallet in Minnesota, it's a bill fold. I've never heard or

Speaker 2 (09:36.13)

That. Tell me. What about I've never heard that's amazing. Yeah. I'm gonna listen to for it now. I bet you I know a guy who uses Bill Fold. What

Speaker 1 (09:43.554)

What about when you want to drink this is the use?

Speaker 2 (09:47.8)

That's Wisconsin. It's a it's a water fountain. Only Wisconsin calls it a bubbler. Really? They must be the only ones closest to Hudson.

Speaker 1 (09:51.625)

Minnesotans call it a bubble.

Speaker 2 (09:58.38)

But ramp ramp is like bro, a ramp is a ramp. What you're talking about is a parking garage.

Speaker 1 (10:05.486)

I thought you were talking about leaks. Well when you say ramp or they who am I talking to right now? Tops and Hank Shaw, ramps or leaks.

Speaker 2 (10:13.198)

But yeah, it's like, yeah, we're gonna go up to the parking ramp and you know wait, what? You mean the garage? No, on the ramp.

Speaker 1 (10:20.142)

Well, where I was going with this and category killers and wild foods, our listeners out there, if you hunt, if you fish, and you don't have Hank Shaw's books, you gotta add them to your arsenal because it is very approachable. You know, there's some that are a little fancier than others, right? But absolutely, right? But but it's super approachable if you just like to make

Speaker 2 (10:43.052)

Date night has his time.

Speaker 1 (10:50.156)

the best out of the the meat you harvest, whether that's a fish or a you know animal from the forest or the field, and know that you're contributing to a self-published hell of a ro hell of a great guy. and then if you're you know pheasant quail cottontail if you don't have that, pick that one up and you're helping contribute to the our organization's habitat mission as well. And you know we're we're a little ways off from Christmas, but it's never too early to

To add one. So before we leave the the book publishing, I want you to obviously Buck Buck Moose, the new anniversary edition is your brand new one. Right. Borderlands, that's kind of the the curveball of your catalog.

Speaker 2 (11:34.996)

It is. But it it's actually kind of more like the Fernando Valenzuela screwball.

Speaker 1 (11:39.118)

I like a Fernando. That's the first person that's ever brought a Fernando.

Speaker 2 (11:43.923)

Fernando is from Sonora, Mexico, so it's very appropriate.

Speaker 1 (11:47.478)

for for Guillermo Hernandez. there you go. Yeah. The only there were the I think the last player that was the MVP and the Cy Young in the same year. 1984 Detroit Detroit Tigers. Anyways, Borderlands, not baseball. It's not a baseball book, but it's a a a cookbook, but a little bit different than people come to expect from

Speaker 2 (12:09.652)

It is. So Borderlands was really my love letter to the desert southwest, to Texas, and to the Mexican side of that border. And it's full of fishing, like this is it's kind of two things at once. The it's full of fishing game recipes, tons of them in it. And I think a lot of people didn't realize that. And then but it's also built for someone who doesn't hunter fish. So it's really kind of I went I've been traveling there hunting, fishing, and foraging for decades. You know, and I can speak Spanish and it's really opened up a an enormous amount of of just incredible knowledge and incredible experiences that I had. And so there's it's just full of like deer recipes and weird like foraging recipes and fish recipes and there's a whole bunch of even like vegetarian stuff. Go figure, right? just because there's there's some dishes in there that are just so good I had to put in. And the way the book is written is it's kind of a journey from the mouth of the Rio Grande, where Tomolepas meets South Texas.

And it takes you all the way to the Pacific and Baja and San Diego. And it's tons of stories. It really puts you there. And it's I I wrote it because it's a region that's really important to me. and it was also a region I had a lot of experience in, hunting, fishing, and foraging. So it just felt like a natural

Speaker 1 (13:26.486)

You know, I think the key is, you know, if you think about your books, Buck Buck Moose, Duck Duck Goo, you we needed to come up with a three part name for Borderlands. Play with anything like that?

Speaker 2 (13:38.83)

I mean, yeah, you could have done something like tortillas, tortillas and tamales or something like that.

Speaker 1 (13:45.486)

That's that was do the trick. Maybe the anniversary edition of Borderlands, you come up with a slightly you unique twist on it. You good. all right. We're gonna do a little bit of a different approach because you know we've talked a whole bunch of recipes in previous podcasts that you've been on, like how what's your favorite for pheasants and sharp tails. I I'm gonna approach it a little bit differently before we get going.

I do want to thank Purina Pro Plan, not only the presenting sponsor of On the Wing Podcast, but also the national dog food sponsor of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's Wildlife Habitat Mission. My pups have always eaten Purina Pro Plan, not just because Purina supports the wildlife habitat conservation mission of our organization, which is absolutely important to me and should be important to you as well. But the most important thing.

As a bird dog owner, is knowing that Purina Pro Plan was created. The recipe was made for the working bird dog, like yours and like my little Gitchigumi in Little Winter. You can learn more at Pro Plansport.com, Purina Pro Plan Nutrition that performs.

Speaker 3 (15:03.842)

From Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever National Headquarters in Saint Paul, Minnesota, this is Casey Sill with the Upland Newsroom, delivering top stories from the Habitat Organization and across the American Uplands.

We begin today with a small but mighty land acquisition in Ohio. Pheasants Forever and the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Division of Wildlife are celebrating the addition of forty-three acres to the Big Island Wildlife Area in Marion County, Ohio. Pheasants Forever acquired the parcel in the fall of 2024 through its Build a Wildlife Area initiative, and recently transferred the acreage to the Ohio Division of Wildlife in August 2026.

This new tract is unique in that the land served as a golf course for many years before a portion was converted back to cropland and the remainder was left fallow. Now nearly all 43 acres of the property will be restored to native upland habitat to benefit the local pheasant population and other grassland species. Bordered on opposing sides by Big Island wildlife area, the golf course tract, as it's known.

was a key addition that increases habitat connectivity and adds to over seven thousand acres of protected habitat in the area, including previous Build a Wildlife Area projects, the Mallet Family Tract, and Beaver Wildlife Area.

The project was made possible by our trusted partners at Ohio Department of Natural Resources, with support from Enbridge through their Sustainable Communities initiative, and by continued support of Build a Wildlife Area from a whopping 24 different Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever chapters. We now move to Minnesota, where a rough grouse hunter got the surprise of his life while out chasing birds with his Brittany in late September, according to a recent article in Minnesota Outdoor News.

Speaker 3 (16:48.664)

While hunting near McGrath, Mike Ziebert of Oakdale, Minnesota was walking along an ATB trail when his young dog Griffin went on point just around the corner of the trail. McGrath turned the corner, but rather than a grouse, he saw an emu standing in the middle of the trail. Turns out the bird named Petunia had escaped her pen, and her owner, Casey Anderson, great name, of Isle, Minnesota, had been trying to track her down for over a week. Petunia's since been returned to Anderson and is safe and sound with the rest of her flock.

No word on whether an emu season is on the books in Minnesota next year.

To read the full story, grab a copy of the October sixteenth edition of Minnesota Outdoor News, or head over to outdoornews dot com. That'll do it this week reporting from PF & QF headquarters in St. Paul, Minnesota. I'm Casey Sill.

Speaker 1 (17:39.68)

All right. So well one thing before we get into the the kind of the beat. I well, I was thinking about you know, we hunted you you came to my annual grouse camp with a hard that that was like a decade ago now, right?

Speaker 2 (17:54.166)

Still remember that was super fun.

Speaker 1 (18:00.706)

We were less gray. Yes. I had more hair on top of my head too. But I I have this photo of you that I cherish from I think it was the first walk of Grouse Camp. And Yeah, you probably do 'cause I just I've talked about this before, but yeah, we we walked, I don't know, it's like an hour and a half walk and you're like on the edge of a of kind of a cutting swamp.

Speaker 2 (18:05.367)

I remember hair on top.

Speaker 2 (18:14.168)

I think I know where you're going.

Speaker 1 (18:30.562)

There's a couple of my buddies in between. I was on the far end. I didn't really even see you till we got back to the truck. And you know, we're grouse and woodcock hunting, and we get back to the truck and you take your vest off. This is where you go, okay. This is the you take your vest off and you turn it upside down on top of my Tahoe's hood, and out falls a grouse, outfalls two timberdoodle, outfalls an absolute

Noah's Ark array of mushrooms, right? Is like this is hunting with Hank Shaw. You just never you maybe even had some greenery in there.

Speaker 2 (19:09.014)

I think I forget what I there was something in there. I forget what it was. It was either like late berries or or like walnuts or something like that. Yeah, it was

Speaker 1 (19:16.152)

Could have been walnuts. Could have been walnuts. But yeah, I mean that's that's your style of hunt, right?

Speaker 2 (19:21.778)

I it's funny, funny you should mention that because flash forward to 2023, I was the chef at the Pine Ridge Grouse Camp. yeah, that's right. Northern Minnesota or North Central, I guess. And there were so many times because that so if you're listening to this and you're a Minnesota mushroom hunter, you will remember the fall of 2023 because it was a generational year for porcini mushrooms. Like generational. Like I know people who picked a hundred pounds of porcini. my gosh. So up there it was happening too.

And so I distinctly remember walking through the woods and you know, I'm looking for grouse and woodcock, right? And I'd be walking my God. Then there would be like four pounds of them just sitting there all perfect. And I walk up and I'll be damn.

Speaker 2 (20:07.402)

like well at least I got the porcini.

Speaker 1 (20:10.599)

give me give me your top three favorite wild mushrooms.

Speaker 2 (20:15.512)

Definitely Porcini. Number one. just I don't know. I don't know how to Porcini for sure. there's one that's really esoteric and it's sort of like a Mushroom Hunters two point deal and it's it's the the Caesars Amanitas. So most people

Speaker 1 (20:16.878)

Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:32.91)

Manitas, aren't they like deadly?

Speaker 2 (20:34.946)

They can be. So you're Amanitas are like razors in some ammonitas will kill you dead. Yeah. Some ami ammonitas will make you, you know, trip and throw up and and poop yourself all n all night. great. Those are super not fun. then there's a few that are just kind of meh and then there's about three or four of that are so delicious that they're worth getting on an airplane and picking. Like they are

Speaker 1 (20:36.962)

Just riding the while with Hank Shaw.

Speaker 1 (21:04.43)

How uniquely a visual identify like how

Speaker 2 (21:09.282)

Safe are either they're pretty easy. Okay. Because the they're all f all of them are all of the best ones are very brightly colored. So the so we all know the the Mario Kart mushroom, the the red one with the pink po or the white polka dots. Yeah. That's emanated muscaria. It's yeah, actually orange in Minnesota. Yeah. It's the same mushroom, but it's that's that's the one that'll make you trip and go psychedelic and then you'll die. Yeah, no, you won't. You'll you'll poop yourself for want to po die. 'Cause it's like it's like throw up and

Speaker 1 (21:26.796)

Do not eat that.

Speaker 2 (21:38.776)

Poop yourself at the same time. it's not, don't avoid that one. Okay. But these there's there's one that lives in Arizona that's a Caesars ammonita. There's one that lives in California that has the cap looks like a brown egg. and then there's a bright yellow one that it's this I'm not going to give you ID tips on this because they're a little bit more advanced and there's stuff you have to know. But they are so good that they're in my top three. the third would probably be a very special morel.

They're called green morels or gray. They are they're a western species and they occur late after a fire. So everybody knows about burn morels in the west. Like that probably half half the people listening to this have picked them. But what you don't know is that after those first morels go away, if you still have moisture, and this usually is involving melting snow up in high mountains in the west, there's the second.

Speaker 1 (22:11.842)

Green morals.

Speaker 2 (22:38.616)

flush that happens that that happens often in high summer. But it's high summer at like seven or eight thousand feet. And they are thicker, meatier, and more morel-y. They are they're super meaty. Like they they're actually hard to dry because they're so so chunky. They don't that they're called double walled. And so they are like the most morel flavor I know. And it's it's one of those things where my ex Holly and I gathered, I don't know

How many pounds one year after a bit really bad fire? She picked them. So I quit in August because I'm like, girl, we have enough. And she never does anything half-assed ever, ever, ever. And you know, if you should have her on the podcast to talk about her new poodle pointer who she's trained herself and who's not become this monster poodle pointer. but she came went up to the mountains that September that same year. Like it's mountain quail season. So it's like September 15th.

Speaker 2 (23:37.356)

And she found Morels. Huh. It's the latest I've ever heard of anybody finding morels ever. Yeah. And she shot a couple of c quail in the same day.

Speaker 1 (23:43.736)

Nice. So I'm I'm I'm not surprised you brought up Morels. I I never heard of you call them greens. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, most people will automatically go to morels. You know, number one. And in recent years, for me personally, chanterelles have replacements.

Speaker 2 (23:51.444)

Greens or grays, depending on who you talk to.

Speaker 2 (24:05.272)

The thing about shanties though is like shanties to me are almost like a default because almost no matter where you live, there's some states where they're not common, but you could you're gonna get into them at some point. Like even this year, which wasn't a very good year, we had a good start to the year. And so I picked, I don't know, 15, 10, 15 pounds of them this year. But last year,

Speaker 1 (24:24.482)

Yeah, the last year was incredible. Epic years.

Speaker 2 (24:27.021)

Lobsters are good too.

Speaker 2 (24:31.214)

Kind of same. I like the look of them. They're kind of and they marinate really well. They I do this sort of Italian technique where you salt them a little bit to get some moisture out of them. Then you boil them in vinegar for like five minutes to kind of acidify them a little bit. Mm-hmm. And then let kind of half dry. Don't not dry dry, but just dry out overnight. So they lose a little bit more moisture and they get a more meaty texture. And then you preserve it under olive oil in the fridge.

Speaker 1 (24:33.621)

yeah, they're gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (24:59.574)

It's an Italian technique that works. US DA does not approve it, but Italians have been doing it for like a thousand years. So

Speaker 1 (25:04.974)

lobsters are an oddity because it's a parasitic mushroom on top of another mushroom. And I I I think the the if the you eat either one of them independently, one of is like not poisonous but toxic.

Speaker 2 (25:10.198)

It's a mushroom on a mushroom. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:20.972)

Yep. The base mushroom is it's not really toxic. It's just like b it's like it's neither edible nor not edible. It's I think from what I understand, it sort of just like passes right through ya. Yeah. Like like it doesn't make you sick, but it's also like colon blow, cold and blow.

Speaker 1 (25:36.494)

But it's funny, right? Like so a parasitic mushroom takes over that and changes the dynamic of it. And all of a sudden it's a it's a good to eat mushroom. how do you feel about well one other thing on lobsters? Our friend Lucas Leaf. yeah. You ever talk with him about how he uses he dries them and powders them and use it as a uses it as a fish batter. Which makes sense.

Speaker 2 (25:56.247)

What does he?

Speaker 2 (26:03.385)

Well that means he's picking a lot of lobster mushrooms.

Speaker 1 (26:07.372)

Right. But you know, this time of year well, you know, September time of year in Minnesota is when they're out. Yep. So and you can find in pretty good numbers when we have the right moisture.

Speaker 2 (26:17.624)

I had a pretty good run of in August down in southern Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (26:20.642)

Yeah, I guess I picked some in July even. we'll leave the mushroom talk in a moment. But tell me your opinion on hen of the woods and chicken of the woods. 'Cause to me I know they're edible. They're I'm just like, yeah, I don't really care for

Speaker 2 (26:37.944)

So we call like so there's a group of us that live in the Twin Cities, we're all mushroom freaks and we call ourselves the mushroom mafia. And so it's like Alan Burgo, the forager chef, Jamie Rockney, who's chick of the woods, Mike Carnes, who's written a mushroom book. Like there's just a bunch of us who are like like a little bit weird about it, but what we are always looking for are what we call chicken nuggets. And a young chicken of the woods, mm-hmm, like

'Cause you know how fast they grow. So if you've ever watched one grow, it's you know, within the course of four or five days it it's it is what you think it is. Become woody. But the young ones are tender to the core. They are spectacular. So I was like a

Speaker 1 (27:12.448)

They can become woody if you

Speaker 1 (27:22.862)

Neon green underneath them. That's what

Speaker 2 (27:25.122)

Super green, they're super neon, yellow. and there's two kinds. There's the white poured and the yellow poured. One is Ladoporus sulfurus and the other one is Cincinnatus. Cincinnatus is the white one. when they're super young, they're amazing. you know, hens, on the other hand, they're which are out in the fall, they'll be out until we get a hard frost. So like even after like a they'll be fine in our area until it gets like twenty.

Mm. So they're pretty frost resistant. They're actually really good bigger because what you can do, what I like to do is have you ever like eaten or seen a cauliflower steak?

Speaker 1 (28:04.682)

A cauliflower. yeah, yeah, yeah. Throw it on the grill and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:06.574)

You could do that with these hen of the woods. It'll get that same kind of cross section. And especially if you put it under a brick or a like a bacon press. Really? Yeah, I have a recipe for that on my website. Yes. Okay. And it's like this it's meaty and it's holes together and it looks really cool. It looks like it kinda looks like you're eating a tree because it's sort of like that cross section with like you've got a s main main trunk and then all of the frilly things of it's

Speaker 1 (28:16.462)

Shirts.

Speaker 2 (28:36.282)

And then you got crispy edges and, you know, lots of butter of course.

Speaker 1 (28:40.238)

Super mushrooms and butter. all right. So w what I intended to do is and maybe not super quick like a lightning round, but I want to throw out different cooking and thoughts and then have you pair like or tell me which upland bird you would do. you know, this preparation. So I'm talking about smoking and sou ving grill. But before I leave mushrooms, I want you to

Speaker 2 (28:42.38)

Super good.

Speaker 2 (29:08.878)

You had a pretty good year with picking rushes. I've been checking your instruments. I I lo I

Speaker 1 (29:13.024)

I don't know mushrooms in anywhere near your level.

Speaker 2 (29:16.726)

You can always send me a a text message with a picture number and so it'd be like you can send me his pictures like will I die? I'm like probably not.

Speaker 1 (29:19.352)

Gonna kill me or

Speaker 1 (29:29.23)

Probably not. I gotta be very nice to you today. but as you think about mushrooms and upling game birds, like pair like w you know, chanterelles would go best with which bird, mon morels would go best. Like just

Speaker 2 (29:47.596)

Well, there's classic combinations. So like morels and wild turkey is a very classic. Because it's spring. but morels are kind of a more of an earthy, darker kind of thing. So I like them with sharpies. the I like the pheasant and chanterelles because there's sort of a like a yellowy thing going on with pheasants. You've got that beautiful chanterelles. Woodcocker funky. And so one thing that's I'm just sort of

Yeah, yeah. Just brainstorming right now. So my first thought with woodcock would be black trumpets. Because they are a very aromatic, kind of funky mushroom that's gonna bring out this sort of exoticism. Yeah. Whenever anybody asks me who's a civilian, like, well, what does a woodcock taste like? And my first answer is like it's a little like a snipe. Yeah. Like that doesn't help me. Like for a real. I know. Sorry. let's see. So ruffy ruffies.

Speaker 1 (30:38.36)

Ha ha.

Speaker 2 (30:45.168)

I like ruffies with Porcini and with Hen of the Woods. bluegrouse, Porcini for sure. spruce grouse, matzotaki. Hmm. Yep, definitely matsuaki with spruce grouse. And pharmigans. I think a like pharmigans are dark and kind of funky as well. So, but there's a whole bunch of Lexinums, which are they're like they're bowl eats, but they're typically you

You dry and cook into like a ragu or like a mushroom sauce. Those work well with with carmigan.

Speaker 1 (31:18.446)

Honestly, in my opinion, mushrooms pair wonderfully with any upland bird. And I also think about your, you know, your your kind of genesis in bird hunting. Tell tell the Niskanin story a little bit. Just I know we've talked about it before. You've probably even said it on this podcast before, but I think it's a great story about your philosophical approach to preparing a meal.

Speaker 2 (31:43.79)

So this is kind of how I started hunting. Like I I came here twenty five years ago to work for the Saint Paul Pioneer Press. And Chris Neskinan was the outdoor writer at the time. And so we had fished. We make we became friends and we'd fished a bunch. yeah. I mean, I've been fishing since before I could talk. caught my first tuna when I was seven. And so fishing, yeah, I got it. and I'd never hunted though. So I'm in my I'm thirty, you know. And so

Speaker 1 (31:57.238)

And you grew up as an Angler.

Speaker 2 (32:13.666)

Hunting season comes by and Chris's like, You want to come hunting? I'm you I think I kind of do. And I had I never shot a shotgun. And he's like, and this is like this well, the fall had been going on. And so this was not October. This so there wasn't dumb October pheasants. This is like bees. This is like right before Christmas. So it's like really hardcore. So he's like, Well, let's go out to Aberdeen. And this is when Niskan had Finn the Wonder Dog.

Speaker 1 (32:29.87)

Hope this

Speaker 2 (32:41.886)

one of those little labs, like one of those magical little labs that are just under unbelievably cool to hunt behind. And Finn the Wonder Dog was I think like in her prime at the time. I think she was like nine, eight or nine and just was like had it wired. And so we're walking through and I'll tell you about my my shotgun training first. So he hands me I think it's like a Satori lightning. It's an over and under twenty gauge. And so we throw out milk jugs and I finally hit one. He's like, good enough.

Speaker 1 (33:11.266)

Ha ha ha ha.

Speaker 2 (33:14.316)

And like

Speaker 1 (33:15.967)

Ha ha ha.

Speaker 2 (33:18.434)

So we're walking through this field and like Chris knows, like he knows what's going on. So the, you know, Finn is going back and forth in front of the two of us, and Chris is like, keep up, keep up, keep up, because he he's walking really fast. And he's walking really fast because he knows why. But I don't know why. I'm like, why are we walking this fast? This is dumb. And he's walking that fast because Finn is pushing the pheasants out of the edge of the field. So there's the edge of the field like 50 yards or 100 yards ahead. And all of a sudden, pheasants start pouring out of the end of the field, and everybody listening to this

knows what's coming. Yeah. So this cloud of pheasants come up and he's like, Rooster. And Chris goes boom, boom, and shoots two, and two roosters go down. I manage to nick one and it it lands on the ground and starts running a running around. And Finn the Wonder Dog goes r immediately after it. And I'm never gonna forget this as long as I live, where Finn is chasing this rooster around this like big rock. The rock's about like

Half the size of this table. So I don't know, like four or four or five feet, like a four or five foot long boulder that's at the edge of this field. And it's like Looney Tunes. It's like And's like run and run and run around like it goes round and the pheasant just keeps running around this rock and he finally catches it and it's like, There it is. First I kinda shot it.

Speaker 1 (34:23.542)

No.

Speaker 1 (34:34.606)

So the story I was thinking about was Sharp Tails and Rose Hips.

Speaker 2 (34:40.973)

that was later though. I had already hunted by that. yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:42.976)

yeah. Well that that so tell that story because I always equate your approach to preparing a wild game meal with kind of the combination and looking out on the prairie and being like, some of this, some of this.

Speaker 2 (34:58.286)

That was a great hunt. That was a few years later. And so I was already in California at the time. So I drove to North Dakota. And so we met on a on a stretch of ground. I can't remember exactly where it was, but it was southeast North Dakota. So south of ninety-four and east of Bismarck. And and it was never broken by the plow. It's a rare a rare piece of prairie that I'd never been never been messed around with. So Chris is like, this is gonna be really special.

Speaker 1 (35:19.682)

Virgin Prairie.

Speaker 2 (35:27.712)

It's private lands. I like only we can hunt it and it's gonna be amazing. And so just walking through this area, first of all, it was it was lousy with sharp tails. It's like a zillion sharp tails. And so we all easily got limits. But what was fascinating about it was the diversity. It's the first time I ever realized that that the prairie was a diverse place. And it was the first place first time I realized, you know, I grew up in in pretty urban New Jersey. If you've ever seen the T V show The Sopranos.

Speaker 1 (35:38.36)

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (35:57.09)

That's literally where I grew up.

Speaker 1 (35:58.272)

I think more of n Jersey Shore.

Speaker 2 (36:01.218)

No, I wasn't from the shore though. I was from like kind of New York City area in New Jersey. And it's very not that. And so, you know, you think of flyover states, you think of like there's there's nothing there. You could drive through it on Interstate 80 or 94 and like, you know, just not a lot of nothing. And it's up kind of right when it's like industrial agriculture. but if you catch the the you know, this is kind of what you guys are doing with the pollinator project is when you

Restore the prairie to what a prairie actually is. It's one of the more diverse habitats in the United States. And newsflash, like half of that stuff in there is edible. I actually went down to Pheasants Forever, Iowa and did a talk at their state convention a couple of years ago, and talked about like, hey, if you're gonna if you're gonna put, you know, restore some prairie on your ground, consider putting a whole bunch of edible plants in there, which are part of this whole package anyway. Yeah.

Rose hips are one. wild asparagus, sand plums is a huge one. June berries are a huge one. There's a whole bunch of hazelnuts, just a whole bunch of things that are native to the Great Plains that help pollinators and that are good to eat and they go well together with the things that you're hunting. There's kind of a a a saying in in certain shit the circles of of being a chef is that what

Speaker 1 (37:00.322)

Asparagus.

Speaker 1 (37:19.425)

No is

Speaker 2 (37:26.858)

li goes together in life goes together in the plate. So there are tons and tons of rose hips, when you go sharp tailed grouse hunting. And you can very easily make a a sauce out of them by cooking them down, running it through a strainer. They have little seeds that you don't want to eat, but you get this sort of bright orangey red paste that you mix with a little oil and salt, it makes this insanely good sauce. Huh. And

It's just t so many things that are just there that you just like when your eyes light up. It was like the with the mushrooms and the grasswoods, you know. People f sleep on the Great Plains. Like, but there's a ton of really amazing stuff there.

Speaker 1 (38:05.61)

you gotta like bottle some of this stuff. Hank Shaw's Rose Hip Syrup. I put a little label on that.

Speaker 2 (38:13.416)

And it might kill the joy out of it though. You know, I like I like the fact that it's sometimes it's spontaneous and it's it's sort of independent on what did we find?

Speaker 1 (38:23.126)

Yeah. All right. So we're gonna we'll call it a semi lightning round. Sure. all right. This summer I got a smoker, camp chef smoker. So I've dabbled in learning how to smoke ribs and brisket and and shoulder roasts, which or they're also called pork butts. yeah butt, but it's just a shoulder roast. I don't know why they they call pork butts, but anyways.

so I'm gonna give you different sort of techniques. Tech s we're gonna start with smoker. When I say a smoker in an upland game bird upland bird, what would you mean where's your head go?

Speaker 2 (39:02.262)

Upland Bird, okay.

Speaker 2 (39:07.358)

doves and pheasants. Okay. Doves, pheasants, and turkey legs. turkey legs because smoked turkey thighs are amazing and they are one of my favorite things in the upland world to eat because there's people forget that there's only one bone in them. and turkey drumsticks, when I separate the thigh from the drumstick. When you you smoke that hard, like smoke it like it basically you can buy smoked turkey drumsticks in the supermarket.

Speaker 1 (39:10.967)

Why?

Speaker 2 (39:36.812)

It's basically like that. And you use those not necessarily to like sit there and eat like Henry the Eighth. you use them for beans and greens. Okay. So like you use like a ham hock and you throw it in the water with dry beans or baked beans or something, and over the course of hours, all that meat and all that t connective tissue softens and it you can just pull it right. Add a whole bunch of

Speaker 1 (39:56.43)

Separates from the tendons and the bone and yeah. You put it into soup or salads or

Speaker 2 (40:01.858)

Yep. Beans, usually like dry beans, like collard greens, kale, that kind of stuff. How are you gonna Smoked pheasants, awesome. so what I love about smoked pheasant is a kind of a similar deal. So I got a great recipe for smoked pheasant on site. but typically if I smoke pheasants, they're skin on. Like cause it the skin adds a lot of flavor. You can smoke them skin off, but they're not quite as good. and you eat the breast as like a that's what you're eating for for dinner that.

Speaker 1 (40:08.43)

Smoked pheasant.

Speaker 2 (40:31.534)

The rest of the bird becomes one of the most valuable basis for a soup you've ever made. Okay. Because you've got that roasted smoky flavor. Yeah. That when you but it's going to be tough, right? So by basically making it the base of a soup and then pulling all the meat off and then straining it. So you've got basically make the broth with a smoked carcass and then you strain it. And then you pick the meat off, the meat goes back in the soup. It's amazing. dubs.

Speaker 1 (41:00.379)

Okay. I didn't think anybody uses doves other than an jalapeno popper.

Speaker 2 (41:00.793)

Doves, they smoke up in like

Speaker 2 (41:06.39)

Well, that's that's a great thing to do on Labor Day. Like that's the jalapeno popper to Labor Day is what turkey is to Thanksgiving. It's like it's a it's a cultural touchstone. Yeah. And I'm not hating on a popper. Yeah. However, I know I mean I shot, you know, thirty of in two days and there's a whole bunch of people who shoot hundreds of doves in a season. And you you're gonna need extra recipes for so a smoked dove is they they smoke up in about an hour. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (41:36.522)

And they get a really nice flavor on them and then I usually paint with like some sort of a barbecue sauce or like a Mexican chili sauce. That's actually a dish down in Sonora is is Palomas in Wahillo sauce. And it's just like a finger food kind of deal at a at a picnic.

Speaker 1 (41:54.142)

Sous vide. Mm sous vide.

Speaker 2 (41:57.442)

Sous vide, I think the the first thing on my mind goes to is pheasant or turkey breast. because especially turkey breasts, because it can be it can dry out, but pheasant breasts are the same. So you could sous vide you know, a series of skinless this here's you here you want skinless. Okay. a series of skinless pheasant breasts. And then they're going to be they're gonna stay moist, they're gonna stay juicy and you're gonna avoid that whole drying out part. And

And it does not gonna take long. This is the people people mess up with soup eat a lot. Yeah. Where they're like, Well Yeah, I would cook it at one fifty five. So that is you're even one fifty. Okay. So hot enough to cook it all the way through, but not hot enough to dry it out. And for maybe an hour. wow.

Speaker 1 (42:31.822)

You know I'm gonna cook.

Speaker 1 (42:45.432)

So I'm I think I'm doing sous vide wrong. Okay. I haven't done a whole lot of upland birds, but I've done a fair amount of venison. And the recipes I'm seeing like twenty four hours. That's insane. And it changes the the complexion, the texture of the meat.

Speaker 2 (43:01.196)

I'm throwing up in my mouth right now. It's awful. It's terrible.

Speaker 1 (43:03.527)

It's not great.

Speaker 2 (43:07.658)

I I'll tell you this one story. so ten years ago, I still remember this. a very well known chef whose name shall be remain nameless 'cause we had a conversation about it afterwards, bought very expensive Elk Loin for a book dinner that I did and did exactly that. He souveteed it at like one thirty for like twenty hours. Yeah. And then seared it on the outsides. Yeah. It looked fine.

Speaker 1 (43:31.454)

That's exactly the recipe I followed.

Speaker 2 (43:34.11)

And it tasted like wallpaper paste. Yeah. Like people forget that with sous vide, it's still cooking, even once it reaches the middle, the internal temperature. So that's great if you want to break down connective tissue for like a shank. But for tender cut, it's an it's madness. It's just absolute madness. The only caveat to that is bear. because with bear, you're pasteurizing it. And so you need to put it in there for like a it's still not 20 hours. It's insane. But

Speaker 1 (43:36.438)

It wasn't great.

Speaker 2 (44:03.096)

four hours maybe because you want to make sure that it's pasteurized all the way through so you no because nobody wants trichinosis.

Speaker 1 (44:08.876)

Yeah, so yus V will be good enough to kill the worms all the time.

Speaker 2 (44:14.83)

Over time. Hundred and forty degrees. So hundred and forty degrees kills strich and eye parasites, but it has to be held at hundred and forty degrees for a while. So that it's can't just get there, it has to stay there for a bit.

Speaker 1 (44:21.976)

Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:27.608)

Side tangent, you know, I and with bear y you have to leave it in the freezer for a certain amount of time. Do you know

Speaker 2 (44:34.594)

That doesn't that doesn't work with our bears. It does Okay. So our bears, so so we're talking for here from Minnesota and so bears from about Iowa North if they have trichon trichonine parasites, they don't all have it, but you have to assume they do. If they have it, it's gonna be trichonine nativa. And trichonine nativa is a trichonine parasite that is native to the North America and it is frost resistant. really? Yep. So trichonite spiralis is

Speaker 1 (44:36.846)

Nope.

Speaker 2 (45:02.22)

Which is the it's a European trichon I parasite. And that is that's the one what we all know from pork when we were little kids. Uh-huh. which is now basically eliminated from the the

Speaker 1 (45:11.486)

You never hear about people getting trichinosis from pork. Right.

Speaker 2 (45:15.086)

So that but that's that trick and I. Gotcha. And so that's going to be from about Missouri South. So that pair so if you have a bear from like Arkansas, you have freezer trick, the freezer trick works. If you have a bear from northern Minnesota, the freezer trick does not work. Yep. Cook it.

Speaker 1 (45:30.818)

Yep.

Speaker 2 (45:31.942)

Or do this sous V thing with the back straps for you know, you could you could pull it off at one forty, but you've I would cook it for like mm, maybe three or four hours to be sure that you've pasteurized that interior.

Speaker 1 (45:45.134)

things you learn. all right. Kind of a tr very easy, straightforward Weber grill in your backyard.

Speaker 2 (45:51.898)

Reber grill. I really like grilled doves. Yeah, grilled doves are awesome. whole of course. if you can't really grill a dove breast. but poppers are be are best cooked grilled. And that's that's a I mean, it's yeah, I did a lot of dove hunting this season. So that's that's why it's top of mind.

Speaker 1 (46:08.206)

It's an easy one.

Speaker 2 (46:16.718)

Kinda like I kinda like grilled quail. Grilled quail are really, really good. for the same reason. Like these small birds that you can grill. and I think of all of the different cooking methods for quail, grilling is probably my favorite. And the other method is is a little bit more chefy where they're you're you're pan siri you're pan roasting them where they're in a frying pan with a bunch of fat and you're using a a big spoon to spoon hot fat over them. And so

It's a much more technical way to cook a bird. It's better, but it requires a little bit of skill. Okay. but yeah, so grilling, definitely quail, definitely doves. You know, you could do pheasant breasts. Like it's it wouldn't be terrible. But grill I'll tell you what, pheasant thighs, skin on pheasant thighs on the grill are baller.

Speaker 1 (47:05.102)

You just can't overcook

Speaker 2 (47:08.012)

No, actually you'd be okay. So because with the if I'm gonna grill a pheasant thigh, well, first of all, I'm crazy, so I pluck I pluck them. Yeah. You can even pluck just the legs on a pheasant and and to get because that skin on the pheasant thigh, again, thighs we're talking. Yeah to separate the drumsticks off. the you brine them. You brine them like for I know, four or five hours, and then that helps them retain more moisture on the grill. Right. It's an insurance policy against getting them dried out.

Speaker 1 (47:34.922)

Let's merge a couple here. give me a quail oriented recipe with your borderlands philosophy, your borderlands book. So Desert Southwest and a quail species.

Speaker 2 (47:48.68)

definitely definitely still grilling. Okay. Still grilling. I would probably spatch cock and then you know, any of your chili sauces. Hmm. Like Mec New Mexico red or green chili sauce, which is kind of roux based. you know, an actual Mexican like a Mexican Wajo sauce, which is like the mild rip bright, bright, bright red Wajio chilies, garlic onions, Mexican oregano.

all that can be done on the grill, pureeed out and then that's you just kinda nap the the quail as it's grilling. That's that would be a really great way. stewed quail.

Speaker 1 (48:27.266)

Well, I was thinking about would you do a puzzle? You c Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:30.104)

Could. You could. I do a really cool it's not borderlands, but it's a like a central Mexico dish. It's a soup. It's a quail soup. Caldos Lopeno. and that is it's a great soup. It's like got all the things in it. Like it's but yeah, you could totally do a pizzoli. And the you wouldn't want you wouldn't necessarily need a skin on quail for pizzoli. You could use a skin off yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:52.622)

All right, I'm gonna hit you with a couple more. Before that, I wanna thank Onyx Hunt for being a sponsor of On the Wing podcast. We don't hunt for that perfect picture just for social media. With Onyx Hunt as your guide, we do hunt for the walk behind a good bird dog, the smell of burnt powder, and the buddy right alongside us, even if he's picking mushrooms the entire way, right, Hank?

Speaker 2 (49:18.322)

yeah. By the way, I use on X for mushrooms too. Do ya? I I mark my mushroom spot. I do actually now.

Speaker 1 (49:21.88)

Yep. Do they have an icon for mushrooms? I think they well's time out here as a way of putting everything else in perspective. The best days are rarely involve what ends up in the back of your vest. Well, unless it's mushrooms. they're the stories we tell for years, the unforgettable dog work and the people who were there with us long after the season ends.

Speaker 2 (49:29.571)

Had it.

Speaker 1 (49:50.21)

Those are the stories that also stay with us. Onyx Hunt, here's to the hunt, your foraging leader. All right. Italian, you're gonna make a pasta. Sorry. sorry. Makes sense. I you know, I'm a little disappointed. The first time you ever cooked at Grouse Camp, do you remember the pasta it was

Speaker 2 (50:02.746)

Mm. Pheasant catchatory. Pheasant catchatory Done and done. Like

Speaker 2 (50:15.906)

Don't that was a while ago. So

Speaker 1 (50:20.642)

That I was thinking that I guess it wasn't a pasta, was it? Because that's what I'm thinking about. It was w but it was a tomato based sauce that you had the woodcock in. Called it sorta like was it gravel or something? You had a unique name for it. No. It was it it definitely was woodcock and it was a tomato based sauce.

Speaker 2 (50:31.81)

You

Speaker 2 (50:38.584)

Wasn't a sugo, was it?

Speaker 2 (50:46.124)

Was it was it legs?

Speaker 1 (50:48.119)

No, it was a whole wood

Speaker 2 (50:51.166)

I might have just made it up at the spot. I'm known to do

Speaker 1 (50:53.294)

Say it with confidence, right? All right. So doesn't catch it to her. Asian. What we gonna throw in a walk?

Speaker 2 (51:03.0)

there's so many. Like this is like if for all of you guys who are listening here, I'm like, I just got just breast out my pheasants. Listen right now. This is your moment. Hmm. Skinless pheasant breasts or quail breasts are among the my favorite things to stir fry in the whole wild game world. I have a bunch of just I mean, because they they really, really do take the place of a of chicken in any kind of stir fry or Chinese or Asian dish.

And because you're using a like a velveting to coat the the little pieces of meat, they stay they stay juicy. They are absolute like I've made an orange chicken, like you know, panda express orange chicken. I made that with pheasant. I've got that in pheasant curl cottontail. I've done a kung pao with with pheasant. That's also in pheasantl.

Speaker 1 (51:51.246)

And w at one time I think your general sews. yeah. It wasn't that the number one searched recipe on your site for us. Like a decade?

Speaker 2 (51:54.987)

yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:01.102)

It was amazing. It still is. It is general so like who doesn't like general so chicken? And there's zero reason you can't use any white meat. So rough grouse, pheasants, partridges, bluegrass, quail, wild turkey, all of it will work.

Speaker 1 (52:17.226)

the word I'm thinking back to our the woodcock recipe. Does if I say the word gravy, does that ring a bell what you made that day?

Speaker 2 (52:29.336)

Southern was it Southern Tomato Gravy? Yeah. Yeah. Southern tomato gravy. So so smothered woodcock. Yes. Yep. I just made that that tomato gravy for doves you know in September. Fabulous. Yeah, that's a great that also is on the re that's on the website. So that I think I sh I think I do that one with I do I think I do it with doves on the list. Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:31.242)

Yes.

Speaker 1 (52:41.046)

It was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (52:44.864)

It is. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:51.298)

Yeah. You're gonna make a upland bird sausage.

Speaker 2 (52:55.202)

Sausage. Well, I mean the obvious would be turkey because they're big enough. but I know guys like my friend Tyler Webster shoots ungodly numbers of of pheasants. And so he's got enough to make a a pheasant sausage. And I have a couple pheasant sausages in pheasant quail cottontail. you have to mix it with pork fat though, because there's just not enough fat. The only thing that you could maybe, maybe you could, if you're a good sausage maker, you could pluck a whole bunch of pheasants.

And use pheasant meat plus pheasant skin to make it emulsified sausage, you know, like a hot dog. and that will give you enough fat because all of the fat in a pheasant is gonna be underneath the skin. And if you emulsify it, if you don't if you guys are out there or are don't know how to make an emulsified sausage, you're out you're you're out of luck. But but it's it's kind of a I make them a couple times a year because they're fairly challenging.

Speaker 1 (53:44.686)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:51.65)

But they're really good. Like a really good vice verse or a really like a really good hot dog that's not made with like scrapings off the floor.

Speaker 1 (53:59.022)

Is super lips and assholes. yeah, a mutual friend of ours, Lenny Rousseau. He used to have a restaurant called The Heartland. And one of my first dates ever with with Meredith. wow. Lenny had on the on the menu pheasant cherry sausage. Okay. Did you recall ever having that at his one of his it was I don't think out of this world.

Speaker 2 (54:00.91)

Lips and assholes.

Speaker 2 (54:10.785)

We had an at Hart.

Speaker 1 (54:28.694)

It was so so Dry cherries? dried cherries in the sausage and then a cherry drizzle over the my gosh. I what I wouldn't give to buy a package of the

Speaker 2 (54:39.502)

It's not that hard to make. Huh. If you wanna make ones well, if you want to make a cherry sausage this winter, I have at least a quart of dried tart cherries from a neighbor's yard. So I got stuff to shoot enough pheasants. What

Speaker 1 (54:54.508)

We can make that happen. all right. Give me give me a date night very French fancy oriented upland bird guess.

Speaker 2 (55:04.66)

Well, it has to be quail or woodcock for sure, because small birds are sexy.

Speaker 1 (55:09.32)

Woodcock? Yep. Ye okay.

Speaker 2 (55:11.382)

Okay. Small birds are sexy. Okay.

Speaker 1 (55:13.614)

Yeah, I love woodcock. I'm just I'm hesitant to put that as a dinner night.

Speaker 2 (55:18.678)

because there's a couple reasons. Well, first of all, they're always gonna be plucked for me. They're always it's always gonna be whole bird prep preparation. So small birds are sexy like that. And they're also a really good indicator. So, you know, I don't know if you you know that I've until recently I've been on the dating scene and one of my tests would always be like, if I serve you a small bird, how are you gonna eat it? Are you gonna pick it up and get after it or are you gonna be all dainty like with a knife and fork? The right answer is pick it up and get after it. And

It would a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (55:49.167)

Read into that what you want.

Speaker 2 (55:54.302)

And so both of them are really there's lots of very, very, very traditional French recipes that work with them. Mm-hmm. you could use any number of kind of classic sauces just to like this is this one I would pan roast. Which is where basically you've got the bird breast side up and you've got two or three tablespoons of of kind of high smoke point fat. And you are you're using a spoon to spoon over the very hot fat exactly where the bird needs to be. So you turn the birds multiple times. I have a

I have instructions on this both in Pheasant Quail Cottontail and on the website on how to do this. But you're basically applying hot oil where it needs to be. So you're gonna apply less on the breast than you are on the legs and the wings. And so what what that's gonna do is gonna give you properly cooked a properly cooked bird all around. And then at the at the end of it you just throw a whole bunch of butter in there and then just base base because butter

Speaker 1 (56:47.618)

Base, based, space.

Speaker 2 (56:49.61)

'Cause a lot of times when you're actually doing the cooking you're using something like grapeseed oil, which has no flavor. but it has a high smoke ball. 'Cause if you use just butter, it would it would burn. and then you nap it with the sauce and then I don't know, this little parsley or black pepper and call it a day.

Speaker 1 (57:05.398)

Would you do th pheasant or I'm sorry, quail and woodcock to like you could one really mild white meat and then we'll

Speaker 2 (57:12.628)

You could I would probably just do one though. I have done parties though that are called things that used to fly. Mm. And every course is a different bird. And I often go from small to large. And those have been really fun.

Speaker 1 (57:25.686)

That is fun. I don't recall ever getting invited to

Speaker 2 (57:28.684)

I've only done one since I moved to Minnesota. Okay. So and that was for the mushroom crew.

Speaker 1 (57:32.236)

Let's get it on the calendar, man.

Speaker 2 (57:34.178)

We just we need to collect stuff I've got doves. and I'm you know, I'm just starting to I'm just starting my upland season, so I'll I'll probably end up with three or four different kinds of upland this year.

Speaker 1 (57:43.538)

last one I have on my list and then we can open it up to what what maybe I'm missing. surf and turf. so what upland bird and what fish or or maybe it's a crustacean that you would marry together.

Speaker 2 (58:00.204)

Let me start by saying I hate surf and turn.

Speaker 1 (58:04.942)

Kinda like filet mignon and a Caesar salad, huh?

Speaker 2 (58:09.536)

Or and a lobster tail. Like, what are we doing here, guys? Like, what are we doing? However, jambalaya. Jambalaya. Jambalaya or gumbo is where I'm gonna do upland and seafood. So I could totally see, you know, yeah, dove gumbo, sharp tail gumbo, really anything with crab and crab crawfish or shrimp, I would say, but for me, I would I would make it

Speaker 1 (58:25.102)

I've had Dove Gumbo before.

Speaker 2 (58:39.074)

dominant of the upland bird and add one of those crustaceans for either jambalaya or and then you'd you'd have a smoked sausage with jambalaya too yeah like andouy. Yeah yeah that would be that's where my mind went where like I like that I hate like

Speaker 1 (58:56.032)

a pheasant breast some crab leg yeah yeah a light skin king crab awesome any any preparation as this conversation's went on where you think maybe he's gonna ask me this

Speaker 2 (58:58.769)

Yeah, well like.

Speaker 2 (59:14.622)

poaching. okay. And not the illegal kind. Yeah. I yeah I th Upland especially white meat, upland birds are some of the best the best meats in the world for either, you know, water po water, I use water in quotes. so broth or water quot poaching or or butter poaching. So I have done multiple times a skinless pheasant breast and I've cooked it in I've just gently cooked it in butter. You know, you buy a couple of pounds of butter.

Speaker 1 (59:17.901)

Speaker 2 (59:44.502)

And you melt the butter and you drop the seasoned, you know, you salt it. Only salt. you salt the pheasant breasts, you you make them cook through in butter on the lowest heat. It will cook through, but your temperature's never gonna get really above 160. And it's almost like sous-vide in a way. And then you pull these pheasant breasts out, they are insanely good. They're not overcooked, they're rich with the butter on them, and then you can season them as you will. So

Occasionally what I'll do is I'll even sear the side that the skin used to be on. By the way, you always want to do if you're gonna sear one side of something because that's the flat side. even if there's no skin anymore. But a lot of times I'll just leave it as it is. Pheasant salad is really good that way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21.123)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28.248)

Yeah. I was thinking like that's a great way to prepare the bird for a pasta.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32.908)

Very much so. Yeah. very much so. And the other thing is like if you're thinking that's crazy to spend use that much butter, reuse the butter. So what you want to do is when you're done cooking, run it through a strainer to get rid of any debris, put it in a container, let it set up, and just label it like bird butter. You can do this with fish too, but label it like fish butter. And then you can use it like four or five times before you're gonna want to change it. It wouldn't, but if you're from like Newfoundland and you like that sort of thing, they eat seabirds there, like they're they're different.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53.966)

Don't mix Don't put your furniture

Speaker 1 (01:01:02.786)

You for doing this. This has been a lot of fun. If folks want to learn more about your recipes, find your books, point them in the direction you want.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11.202)

There we go. my books are available wherever fine books are sold. Amazon. Amazon, your local bookstore, Indiegogo, like all of the indie wherever you want to find your books, my books are available. You can buy them directly from me, in which in which case they will be signed, on huntgathercook.com

Speaker 1 (01:01:28.238)

There'll be signed every single

Speaker 2 (01:01:29.964)

If you buy it from me. Okay. Yeah. If you buy it from Amazon Hunt Gather Cook. HuntGathercook dot com. and that's directly for me, so you help me out as opposed to billionaire. then but and the the social media I'm most active on is Instagram, where I'm HuntGathercook. I run the essay website to the bone, where if you really wanna like read about cool stuff about, you know, kind of behind this curtain kind of stuff. And my recipe website is Hunt Hunter Angler Gardner Cook, and that is huntgathercook dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59.818)

And I will leave all of those contact points in our show notes. Perfect. Thanks for coming over and doing this. Yeah. folks, thank you very much for listening. Please, I encourage you to if if you don't have Hank's books, please check them out. Again, I'll leave links in the show notes. If you do have Hank's books, they are absolutely fabulous heading into the holidays. you know, so you got somebody that loves chasing birds around, heck, chasing deer, fish.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05.368)

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29.134)

and they love putting a wonderful meal together with what they're in pursuit of. Hank's books make a terrific holiday gift. All right, folks, I'm Bob St.Pierre reminding you to always follow the dog. Something good will rise. Thanks for listening.